10 replies to this topic

[toe]

Hey I am just about to finish school and I want to get into IT security. I think i will get my CCNA first but after that i have no idea. Is it worth wasting 3 yrs and going to uni to get a bachelor of IT??

-toe

[as0l0]

Hey I am just about to finish school and I want to get into IT security. I think i will get my CCNA first but after that i have no idea. Is it worth wasting 3 yrs and going to uni to get a bachelor of IT??

-toe

it beats working every day!

look at it this way.

if you go straight into the workforce and snag an IT job, you will have to go helpdesk, desktop/server, networking, then maybe security

if you get a degeree, you can get in on a graduate program and ask to be in security for part of your graduate program.

i personally think you are a better IT person for going through all the levels, but it does take longer.

CCNA won't do much if you don't have some experience.

[the1]

Certification is something like enhancement to a university degree, or in other words showing an additional knowledge that u possess.

and

It only shows that u have knowledge in some commercial tools, but it doesnt entail that u have firm grip on the field.

I havent seen any professional job requirement which asks just a certification.
In between i appreciate ur passion towards CCNA

[Marts McFly]

Iam only 5 years out of school in Australia my self... I dropped out of year 10 to persue a traineeship in IT. It took about 3 years and i finally worked my way up into a helpdesk job. Fast forward a couple of years and here i am today, a network and systems engineer for a fairly small multi national company, where i look after the network infrastructure around Australia and New Zealand and most their servers. What qualifications do i have? Cert II and III in IT. So that is bascially highschool qualifications i gained in my traineeship. I have no CCNA, no MCSE... no nothing, it all boils down to experience, not only do you need to talk the talk but walk the walk. Social networking is also essential. Many doors open for you when you know others in IT, that always helps when you don't have a plethora of certifications to throw at a potential employer.

So if i were you, i wouldn't go to uni. I'd be studying in my own time and working in an entry level IT position and building myself up in the wonderful world if IT.

[GroovyDude]

Most IT positions tend to require some sort of 4 year undergraduate degree. Many big companies will electronically search through resumes looking for keywords, degrees and certs being among them. Chances are, if you don't have a degree, you'll probably be overlooked for an initial interview.

It took me 6+ years of night school to get my 4 year undergrad. At times I wondered why the hell I was even doing it. However, it totally paid off when the company I was at for 8+ years was assimilated by a bigger organization and they decided they didn't need our IT personnel anymore. I was able to bail and get a comparable job elsewhere in no time. Most of the other individuals I worked with had been with the company longer and had worked they way up the chain, but ultimately didn't take the time to get a degree. Yes, they have the experience, but many of them are still unemployed at this time... some going on 5 months of unemployment.

My advice: focus on getting the degree first but remember there are no rules against working or getting certs at the same time. It may be worth getting an entry level IT position at a good company while going to school. Some places will even help pay for your school

[Marts McFly]

Most IT positions tend to require some sort of 4 year undergraduate degree. Many big companies will electronically search through resumes looking for keywords, degrees and certs being among them. Chances are, if you don't have a degree, you'll probably be overlooked for an initial interview.

It took me 6+ years of night school to get my 4 year undergrad. At times I wondered why the hell I was even doing it. However, it totally paid off when the company I was at for 8+ years was assimilated by a bigger organization and they decided they didn't need our IT personnel anymore. I was able to bail and get a comparable job elsewhere in no time. Most of the other individuals I worked with had been with the company longer and had worked they way up the chain, but ultimately didn't take the time to get a degree. Yes, they have the experience, but many of them are still unemployed at this time... some going on 5 months of unemployment.

My advice: focus on getting the degree first but remember there are no rules against working or getting certs at the same time. It may be worth getting an entry level IT position at a good company while going to school. Some places will even help pay for your school

Hmmm, not sure i agree with you totally on all that. I noticed you are from the states, and things obviously are a bit different over there. I'm not even sure what an undergraduate degree is? It is very rare in Australia that you will need a degree in IT to get a decent job. Yeah, you may need one later in life but you are going to need experience anyway, the people who find it hardest to find work in IT are those who DO go for a 4 year degree at uni and come out with no experience and no one wants them. Well, that rings true for Australia anyway. One of my friends and also now my boss is a CIO at the moment, and just left a position as director for information systems for Asia / Pacific. He doesn't have a degree. Just about 7 years or so working his way up, studying himself and getting him self in the right positions.

But i would agree some sort of entry level tafe certification would be a good idea if you wanted to get into an entry level position.

[the1]

Trajik, I appreciate ur efforts and progress to the field.

In between, i dont think there would be any place in world where university degree is not prefered - I am from Australia as well, and working as VoIP Software Engineer.

Its true that u need good contacts to sneak into some company without having university degree, put it mostly starts from helpdesk. But there are other factors as well, like; what package is offered, how fast one gets promoted, how easily one can move to some other company, ...

I agree with u its all about interest and efforts, but how someone can get into some organization without the evidence of knowledge (univ degree).
If we look into seek.com, how many professional job vacancy's do we see not asking the univ degree? I havent seen any so far.

There are some ppl around who are doing well,without having univ degree, but how many they are in comparison of one having univ degree !

[Marts McFly]

I always thought the majority of employers which asked for a university degree on recruitment sites 'don't really mean it', if that makes sense. Personally i've gone for jobs, which i have got which said they required certain certs, but i have none. Seems to me it's just like a screening process to filter out the bullshit applicants, but if you're not a bullshit applicant you will have nothing to worry about. The trick is to show on your resume and/or your interview that you can do the job they are asking you to do. But again, i've never gone for a job that's asked for a degree so i suppose i can't really comment on that.

You put a lot of emphasis on me knowing the right people and 'sneaking' into positions. I would try to put more emphasis on my skillz0rs instead

[as0l0]

You put a lot of emphasis on me knowing the right people and 'sneaking' into positions. I would try to put more emphasis on my skillz0rs instead

i agree, i am also 'self made' meaning i have no degree or certs. i've never got a job based on knowing someone or sneaking past some check. i personally know > 5 people who are also self made who are now senior IT professionals.

with that said, most of the people i work with have a degree.

[darkt3ch]

I am from Australia and have no certs or degree (Other than cert III in IT, which doesnt even count). I left school in gr 10 and before doing that I was made to call 20 prospective employees and ask what they want in the way of certs vs degree vs experience. EXPERIENCE won hands down, then Certificates and some employers I spoke with said they would not even hire someone with a degree. It is now 5 years later and I have been working as a server/network engineer for a fairly major company. I start my new job in a more security focused role next Monday, which is paying above the average salary... Ohh and btw, my old company offered me $20k more + Bonuses to stay... Even though I have no certs.

Social Networking will get you wherever you want to be if you have the skills/references to back it up! A degree wont get you a job at a helpdesk unless you have experience, and even then they most likely would have hired you with experience alone. Certs are a lot better and more specialised than most degrees, but at the end of the day Experience will always win!

[Bull]

I have recently (6 months ago) started work as an independent information security consultant. Most of my work is penetration testing of major Australian government agencies . I get all of my work from two consultancy firms (so far), which I pay a commission to, and am earning over $200k (after commission). I have no certifications. I have some postgraduate and undergraduate degrees, but I don't think they helped me get this job specifically. I got the job for two reasons: experience in a similar field (intelligence), and a recommendation.

However, I am still interested in certification - not for the purpose of getting a job, but for the purpose of increasing my skillset in my current job. I know nothing about certification, so have some questions...

• If I want to increase my skills in my current job, would certification help?
• Is certification global? i.e. If I get some sort of certification from USA, will it be recognised in Australia?
• Is there Australia specific certification?