30 replies to this topic

[White Scorpion]

I'm a bit hurt you didn't mention debian ws j/k

Well, actually i did... how about knoppix?

Except for running Knoppix two or three times, Gentoo was my first distro. I admittedly had to start the installation over again a couple times, but it wasn't because I didn't understand the guide; it was just because I didn't read it carefully enough. Once I did finish the installation, I did so with a significant knowledge of the fundamentals of Linux, just by closely following the installation guide.p

Do you really want to scare off people using linux by letting them try gentoo first? If they get annoyed by its installation they might never use linux again. Yes it is well documented, and yes the installation guide is comprehensive, but most people don't like to dive in the deep right away.
I think ubuntu or knoppix (debian ) are best to play with for a real beginner since they are so easy to setup. And i think it would be smart to make your first installation dual boot, so you can always switch to windows for specific tasks if necessary.

Like i said before, just my opinion

[hottzo]

hmm, i believe gentoo doesn't deserve the stage1 install method, you need about 2days downloading/compiling. I can't understand all the fuss about gentoo, it is highly customizable indeed, but that doesn't mean it should take so much time to install, even on stage3 it needs too much time. Also, i don't believe that with a gentoo install you learn a lot about linux, most of the parameters you have to place, are only for the gentoo install.

my list is:
tinysofa
mepis
debian
centos

[whi7er]

i use ubuntu linux, which is based off of debian. if you have never tried any linux ever you could install ubuntu and get along quite easily. i DO NOT recommend Fedora Core because it runs terribly slow.

the only thing you have to worry about is media playback with ubuntu as MP3 is a non free format so out of the box ubuntu doesnt have the ability to play MP3's, and various video formats. this is solved easily by installing XMMS and MPLAYER so i guess it isnt a problem.

and to the guy who said ubuntu is for people who know very little about computers, i disagree. maybe its for people who know very little about LINUX, but thats wrong too. i guess some people are under the delusion that linux must be hard or it isnt 'legit'. well, no, i <3 ubuntu!


www.ubuntu.com

[Sano]

I have SuSe 10 on my desktop. It didn't work well on my laptop, so I installed Fedora 4. Being new to Linux, I think Suse 10 and Fedora 4 are also good options.

[cduke250]

WTF?!

ARCH LINUX ROCKS!

I can't believe noone mentioned it.. Its the fastest, easiest, coolest linux distro I've ever used.

Heres one reason:

Want to install nmap? Nessus? hping? ethereal? Go to a root prompt and type

pacman -S nmap nessus hping ethereal

done!

Want to search for a package?

pacman -Ss vconfig 

current/vconfig 1.9-1
	 VLAN configuration utility

I have tried probably 90% of every flavor of linux in the past 5 years, and arch-linux beats every other distro hands-down every time..

The only time arch loses over another distro is in terms of complex configurations. The only times I don't use arch is when I need an extremely complex system, then I use BSDs.. but for complex linux systems, I go gentoo or Slackware.


See these posts for more info-

Choosing Your Linux Distribution

Install Multiple Os's With No Cd

or goto www.archlinux.org
or wiki.archlinux.org
or bbs.archlinux.org

[drygol]

tottally agree with digerati. If some1 starts from gentoo and go through all guide then he will learn fundamentals of linux.
Anywayz , i like gentoo cuz of 3 things.
1. Speed - cuz of cflagz cuzstomization
2. Portage
3. its no easy to use @ first

and that 3rd point is pain in da ass of noobs who heard bout linux and wanna try it etc etc.
Imo if there will be more SuperMegaHyper colorfull distros like fedora & mandriva ,then linux will become MS windows like some day , and that means that it will suck
But thats only my personal opinion

[KuerbY]

no offense now cduke but your example is like:

"My Fiat Panda is the best car cause it moves forwads and backwards and it has a radio"

personally ive never tried archlinux (cause i found gentoo about 5years back ) but it looks like it got a good development.

to hottzo:

stage1/stage2 are obsolete
if you dont take genkernel you will learn many things about your kernel whats needed and what not and the real important thing how to work with the console many ppl say "Hey iam linux geek" and then X is (filtered) up and they are stuck...

Also... i dont like those linux battels "Hey the distro iam using is better then yours" blablabla everything got its pro/contra we dont need to talk about this every week

my 55 cent

[SlippyG]

I think the OP should try as many distros as possible. They have many different installation styles from the almost automated to the ones which require you to scratch your head and make calculations on scraps of paper.

You should try installing software on all. You will note that they have a variety of different package managers and it pays to have used two or three different ones.

The same goes with configuration. Try setting up hardware on each. Some will require you to edit files manually. Others will have various neat configuration utilities. Again, it pays to know how to use them - and also how to manualy edit the requisite files by hand (Because one day your systems desktop is gonna crunch and that neato GUI you were relying on ain't available no more)


It makes no sense to decide right now which OS you want to use because the truth is you're almost certainly going to make a complete mess and end up reinstalling it several times. So, why not make a mess on as many systems as possible first before settling on one.


And the MOST important reason for doing it this way is that if you only use one friendly distro you won't understand where linux ends and the distro begins. If you ever have to look at another flavour you'll find that many of the things you rely on just ain't there. It may use a different package manager. It may have config files in a slightly different location. Etc.

Your best bet is to spend a week->month with a different distro and reinstall it as many times as is necessary till the end of the period. Then start over with a new distro.

By the time you have finished you will not only know which distro suits your personal tastes, but you will also be less reliant on the specific configurators and package managers it provides. This will put you in a stronger position when you finally come to actually USE it.

You will have learned a few alternative ways of getting things done and this will give you the experience required to keep your system ticking when the shi[^G]ell hits the fan


-SG

[Tec]

There's been a lot discussed here, and frankly, I'm too lazy to reply to every little detail. I did catch the Knoppix issue a few times. Knoppix is great, an ingenius piece of work.. and it's great to see if you're going to like Linux. However, I highly disagree with using it as your first distribution .. That's just idiotic. Knoppix was not made to run as a permanent operating system, it was made to run as a temporary Linux desktop for rescuing, demonstrations, or all around temporary comfort. I realize there is the option to install Knoppix to your HDD, but all-in-all, that's much like using a knife to eat pudding, and a fork to spread butter. They will both work, yes, and you probably won't have much of a hassle.. but is that really what their original purpose was? Personally I think you should use Knoppix a couple times, and if you like it and are not willing to switch from a Debian style OS, then go find a Debian-based distribution?

Stay lit,
-Tec

[cduke250]

no offense now cduke but your example is like:

"My Fiat Panda is the best car cause it moves forwads and backwards and it has a radio"

personally ive never tried archlinux (cause i found gentoo about 5years back ) but it looks like it got a good development.

None taken KuerbY..

Gentoo is my 2nd favorite, though I don't use it anymore (I use FreeBSD instead of linux for most everything these days)

I hope you do try archlinux.. If you don't you will be missing out on a tight little distro. I have tried out over 30 linux distros in the past 5 years, even writing a paper on GSO about
how to install multiple operating systems on 1 hard-drive, using grub, and installing all of these distros WITHOUT a CD-ROM drive or burner.. just the ISO.

To do the research for that paper, I basically had to download every distro I could get my hands on and check out the BOOT codes and the different managers.. Anyway, So I have an unusual amount of experience with a lot of distros.

I didn't mean to be so brief before, thats why I linked to those articles above.. Here is the first link-

First, let me say I have tried every mentioned Distro, including all BSD, debian, and nixes.

My favorite linux distros (this thread is specific to linux) are:

1. Slackware

2. Arch-linux

3. Gentoo


The best distro is arch-linux, for superusers and moderate-newbies.

The number one reason I like it is because of pacman. You can really feel in control of archlinux from the very beginning. It installs a minimal number of packages and from then on you can add packages to your system whenever you want. pacman trumps any package manager ive ever used (for this purpose)

So you can have a minimal install with network programs and XFCE and it is a lot faster than anything else. And its easier to administrate and navigate.

How to start:

[within the initial setup after arch cd is booted]
1. Download the archlinux iso from www.archlinux.org and burn to cd.
2. Boot and the install is super easy. Only install the base group to begin.
3. use ext2 for /boot, reiserfs for /. Install the kernel from source for allaround better system and easier installs later.
4. Install grub and edit the grub file -- change the time from 5 to 555 or whatever.

5. edit rc.conf- disable netfs, and add a hostname and setup your eth0= and gateway.. add any specific modules like 8139too or 8021q or 3c59x to rc.conf modules section.
to spoof the mac at startup, use this form
eth1="eth1 172.16.0.126 netmask 255.255.254.0 broadcast 255.255.255.255 hw ether 00:05:55:65:95:5c"
the only important part is the hw ether part.

6. edit your resolv.conf and add your nameservers.
7. reboot and log in as root ... follow these commands.
# passwd
type in new root passwd.
# adduser
add a new user
# exit
now log in as new user
# su -
log in as root
# gpasswd -a usernameyoucreated wheel
# gpasswd -a username slocate

# touch /var/lib/slocate/slocate.db
# cd /
# updatedb&

8. Get X working, as usernameyoucreated
# mount /mnt/cd
if it doesn't mount, do a 'cat /etc/fstab' and see whats up
# cd /mnt/cd/arch/pkg
# su -
# pacman -A xfce(hit tab here)
# pacman -A wget(hit tab)

install whatever packages you want but you basically just want X to work.

# pacman -Ss |less
displays all programs you can install with description.

Now as root do
# xorgcfg
then
# vim /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Sample section with wheel support
Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "PS/2 Mouse"
Driver "mouse"
Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2"
Option "Device" "/dev/psaux"
Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
EndSection

sample section
SubSection "Display"
Depth 16
Modes "1280x1024" "1024x768" "1152x864" "800x600"
EndSubSection

whatever mode is listed first is the one that will be open. So change to 800x600 first is you want.



9. Now get your network working if its not already configured in /etc/rc.conf
as root
# ifconfig -a
if nothing shows up, do modprobe 8139too, 3c59x, tulip and try agian. if it works add to your modules section in rc.conf
# ifconfig eth0 netmask 255.255.254.0 broadcast 192.168.1.255 192.168.1.128
input your net settings. You can use dhcp by setting it in /etc/rc.conf
# ifconfig eth0 up
# route -nv add default gw 192.168.1.1 dev eth0
# cat /etc/resolv.conf (to make sure your nameservers are correct)
# vim /etc/hosts (to make sure your hosts are correct)
now ping yourself, then ping your gateway, then ping your nameservers to make sure everything works.


10. Here is where archlinux is BOSS linux distro.. check it out. (BTW, adding the cd as a server is optional, it is a good security precaution becuase you can set up your system before connecting to the net. This method works and is mostly for unconnected machines. or slow bandwidth machines.)
reboot and make sure your network is working.
now vim /etc/pacman.conf as root and add this Server lines. Also, if you already installed wget as instructed above, uncomment the line
XferCommand = /usr/bin/wget --passive-ftp -c -O %o %u


[current]
# Add your preferred servers here, they will be used first
Server = file:///mnt/cd/arch/pkg
Include = /etc/pacman.d/current

[extra]
# Add your preferred servers here, they will be used first
Server = file:///mnt/cd/arch/pkg
Include = /etc/pacman.d/extra


Now do a pacman -Syu and if it works go ahead. If it says no db file, do this
1. vim /etc/updatedb.conf and remove the iso9660 so that slocate will search CDs
2. cd / and as root do updatedb&
3. after jobs is done, do a slocate extra.db.tar.gz or whatever.
4. copy the file where you need it.
If it cant find the db, do a tar -zcvf /whereyouwantthedb /mnt/cd/arch/lib/whatever

If you are connected to the net or don't want to install from CDs, remove the Server lines from the pacman.conf file and do this
# pacman -Syu
this will update your files database and upgrade your current packages
# pacman -S packagename
installs a package and all dependencies.
packages to install
ethereal hdparm ipfm lsof netcat openssh traceroute whois dia etherape figlet hexcurse hexedit host htmldoc iptraf lft mtr hping2 nessus-plugins nessus-libraries nmap fam chkrootkit gnupg gnupg2 gimp ghostscript gvim hal hwd j2re libcap links mozilla-firefox nessus-core netkit-telnet netselect ntfsprogs openssl parted perl portmap progsreiserfs qtparted python ruby rxvt slocate rdesktop rar ssldump tcpdump ttf-cheapskate ttf-ms-fonts vconfig zip

You can see a full list with description at www.archlinux.org

Every so often run pacman -Syu to upgrade and check all your packages.

if you cant get X to work keep making small changes then run startx and then read /var/log/Xorg.log

To see your devices, hwd is the best. Otherwise use lspci -vv

For window managers I use kde for pleasure, blackbox for server utils like nessus, and xfce for misc.

If you cant use X then browse the web with links, or lynx.

if you need to change permissions here is a good way to do it.
Say you need to change all files in your home directory /home/user becuase somehow root touched them. Username is leet: as root
# chown -c -R leet:users /home/leet
This shows you every change and is recursive. I add this to my .bashrc file
alias chmyd='cd /home ; chown -c -R leet:users /home/leet ; chown -c -R webbed:users /home/webbed'

uncomment this in /etc/inputrc to get rid of the beep
set bell-style none


=========================
Those are the main issues I have when installing and setting up arch. There is a ton of specific and updated help on the archlinux.org's wiki page.

It is definately worth your guys time to go check out archlinux.. If I'm BS'ing you then come back and call me out.. Enjoy!

[cduke250]

Videos of Different Distros in action!
IMG- Timeline of linux distros

Seven Linux Distros Compared
How to pick a linux distro
Linux Distributions Compared | Linux Journal | (1996)


The best distro is ARCH-LINUX