This isnt nessesarily the correct or Best way to go about it...its just the way I Went. at first i started with RedHat 9 ... it was a good start, simple things to remember was
Try and do everything with the console as much as you can ie... Without GUI
Try Installing New WM With Less user Friendly Pannels so you force yourself to learn
Dont Get Discouraged when you break something...i re-installed 3 times when i broke X..its all worth it
Seek out Help for things on IRC .. thats always a good place to start...Dont forget to google for it first
Make sure everything you need is set up correctly...ie.. Sound..Video, Burner, DVD etc.. Test these things..get them to work, that way you know everythings running the way it should
personally i think its best if you install a complete Full installation of Linux even on an old computer just to experiment...some people say to Dual Boot..really..its not worth it, you cant learn to fly with your feet still on the ground. that way with Linux, youll FORCE yourself to become good at it. as they say... once you go linux, youll never go back
hope this has been of some help to someone out there any comments ? feedback? please reply ill be happy to know what you guys think about it as well
peace out, icenix
FireAlwaysWorks
Jan 20 2004, 05:04 AM
Yeah, thats awesome. Getting X was the hardest thing to get working when I installed FreeBSD for the first time. RedHat just did it for me . Don't let that discourage you, it really wasn't that hard. Also I don't really sugest RH becase they dropped or are still in the process of dropping there presuit of desktop linux. Mandrake is good, especially MandrakeMove. Suse's live cd isn't bad, it comes with tools to help your resize your windows partition so you don't have to reformat it. As far as Window Mangers go for newbies I suggest XPde: http://www.xpde.com/ Not quite as big of a shock if you are a windows user. I also suggest reading about the shell, you really need to know about programs like: man, less, grep, sed, vi or nano/pico...
thats my 2 cents
SyN/AcK
Jan 20 2004, 08:08 AM
Really want to learn *Nix? I suggest going with a freeBSD system. Force yourself as you mentioned to do everything command line based. Plus, you could easily set it up on a scrap machine to play with. I've got it sitting on a box that I bought for $25 from a local university.
radien
Jan 20 2004, 08:20 AM
Nice Job icenix. I Like the way u started in Linux forum. I think it is more usefull than other post.
Cheers
yuliang11
Jan 20 2004, 08:38 AM
friends, it took me quite some time to convert from windows to linux. remembered the horror when i try to get those hardware working , and the when there is problem and those large number of commands to remember too.now im independent from windows. tell you one thing, but it was all worth it.linux is a powerful sh!t. no restarting, no craps like blue screen and fast. linux can be turned into router,firewall and stuffs. now i'm looking foward for unix(freebsd).
radien
Jan 20 2004, 05:58 PM
QUOTE (SyN/AcK @ Jan 20 2004, 11:38 AM)
Really want to learn *Nix? I suggest going with a freeBSD system. Force yourself as you mentioned to do everything command line based. Plus, you could easily set it up on a scrap machine to play with. I've got it sitting on a box that I bought for $25 from a local university.
What's bad about learning linux. It's all fun, for me. I started w/ unix(Solaris 2.5) then I've swiched to Linux but I did not left unix away and recently I'm on FreeBSD they are not different for me I love them all. They differ just on their applications.
But there is one thing that I just really wondered about FreeBSD. A linux executable code could be run on FreeBSD. I did not do it yet, but seems great!
SyN/AcK
Jan 20 2004, 06:22 PM
QUOTE (radien @ Jan 20 2004, 05:58 PM)
QUOTE (SyN/AcK @ Jan 20 2004, 11:38 AM)
Really want to learn *Nix? I suggest going with a freeBSD system. Force yourself as you mentioned to do everything command line based. Plus, you could easily set it up on a scrap machine to play with. I've got it sitting on a box that I bought for $25 from a local university.
What's bad about learning linux. It's all fun, for me. I started w/ unix(Solaris 2.5) then I've swiched to Linux but I did not left unix away and recently I'm on FreeBSD they are not different for me I love them all. They differ just on their applications.
But there is one thing that I just really wondered about FreeBSD. A linux executable code could be run on FreeBSD. I did not do it yet, but seems great!
I don't really understand what you said... kinda clipped english there. What I was trying to articulate was that if you want to really learn Linux, you should learn Unix first. It forces you to learn more about the OS than a Linux system would, and I think it was very helpful to my development in terms of using Linux systems. *Nix is *Nix, but some *Nix are tougher than others.
Grinler
Jan 20 2004, 06:43 PM
Also you may want to stay away from Redhat if you want to really learn *NIX. Redhat can make it too easy to get things up and running quickly.
A great linux, that I feel, to learn it on is Gentoo. It really gives you an option as to how down and dirty you want to get when setting it up.
radien
Jan 20 2004, 07:03 PM
Hey buddy I'm sorry If I couldn't express myself good.
It's just my opinion. You maybe right, but woking w/ *NIX systems needs love. It's not very interesting to work w/ text terminal for who is used to just click or drag and drop.
But UNIX is really boring and maybe disappointing for newguys, UNIX is a little professional for daily use.
Forcing is not always a good way. I think, getting interested is much more effective. When u fall in love it's hard to creep away, when it happens it is not hard to learn and looking for sth to learn, anymore.
radien
Jan 20 2004, 07:07 PM
QUOTE (Grinler @ Jan 20 2004, 10:13 PM)
A great linux, that I feel, to learn it on is Gentoo. It really gives you an option as to how down and dirty you want to get when setting it up.
I heard such about slackware, But I have not tried it yet.
SyN/AcK
Jan 20 2004, 08:22 PM
QUOTE (radien @ Jan 20 2004, 07:03 PM)
Hey buddy I'm sorry If I couldn't express myself good.
It's just my opinion. You maybe right, but woking w/ *NIX systems needs love. It's not very interesting to work w/ text terminal for who is used to just click or drag and drop.
But UNIX is really boring and maybe disappointing for newguys, UNIX is a little professional for daily use.
Forcing is not always a good way. I think, getting interested is much more effective. When u fall in love it's hard to creep away, when it happens it is not hard to learn and looking for sth to learn, anymore.
Oh, I agree to this, however he asked about LEARNING Linux. If you truly want to learn how to use a Nix system, I think this is the way to go. That said, my main Linux machine is RedHat based, so there ya go.
raif
Jan 20 2004, 11:46 PM
slackware is awesome. i have used it for maybe 8 months and i just fell in love with it. it's so much cleaner and faster than redhat. not all the extra stuff in the way
SyN/AcK
Jan 21 2004, 01:13 AM
QUOTE (raif @ Jan 20 2004, 11:46 PM)
slackware is awesome. i have used it for maybe 8 months and i just fell in love with it. it's so much cleaner and faster than redhat. not all the extra stuff in the way
I could agree with this, however, as Raif knows, I'm partial to GenToo. The whole reason for going with something like Redhat is that the installation can be much smoother of an experience. Installing GenToo can be painful, and installing Debian on my system was intolerable.
w00dy
Jan 21 2004, 02:03 AM
QUOTE
installing Debian on my system was intolerable
After several years of all flavors of linux, here is my lil list in order of pain for the initial install.
Im sure i have forgot a few, but if u remind me of them, i can gladly add them in the list where i deem them to rank.
raif
Jan 21 2004, 02:09 AM
QUOTE (SyN/AcK @ Jan 20 2004, 08:13 PM)
QUOTE (raif @ Jan 20 2004, 11:46 PM)
slackware is awesome. i have used it for maybe 8 months and i just fell in love with it. it's so much cleaner and faster than redhat. not all the extra stuff in the way
I could agree with this, however, as Raif knows, I'm partial to GenToo. The whole reason for going with something like Redhat is that the installation can be much smoother of an experience. Installing GenToo can be painful, and installing Debian on my system was intolerable.
agreed. for linux newbs RedHat is definitely better (better == easier)
w00dy
Jan 21 2004, 02:17 AM
QUOTE
for linux newbs RedHat is definitely better (better == easier)
I strongly disagree with that point. I hear it over and over. When you are moving from one OS (windows) to a drastically different OS(*nix), you need to get away from something that resembles Windows. Using an OS that is designed to look similiar will lull u into thinking that linux is similiar to windows, when in reality, the window manager is meant to be similiar to windows look and feel, but the whole way the OS was built is nothing like windows. When u want to switch, clear up a few days, choose a non-rpm based distribution, a good book on the distribution and lock yourself in a room with it (maybe have a spare computer to look up addition resources online). I promise you that you will learn far more than spending months playing with RH or Suse.
SyN/AcK
Jan 21 2004, 08:18 AM
QUOTE (w00dy @ Jan 21 2004, 02:03 AM)
QUOTE
installing Debian on my system was intolerable
After several years of all flavors of linux, here is my lil list in order of pain for the initial install.
but i heard debian sucked on getting a GUI.. sow that case RH could be better..
icenix
Jan 21 2004, 12:39 PM
wow..a quote fest! hehe, my biggest topic yet *holds his head up in pride* well linux is fantastic, soo customizable...every screenshot ive seen with linux everyone has it JUST the way they want it... i mean..theres no limits so whatever you can picutre of linux..within a few days, youll own the desktop. and have it the way YOU want to have it. thats what i really love about linux peace out icenix
Richie086
Jan 21 2004, 01:12 PM
the power of linux is most definatley not in the GUI.. it's all about the command line.. Although a few tasks are a bit easier to do in the GUI, (for rh9 at least) i almost always use the terminal to do everything because of the power you have over whatever it is your trying to do..
raif
Jan 21 2004, 02:51 PM
QUOTE (w00dy @ Jan 20 2004, 09:17 PM)
QUOTE
for linux newbs RedHat is definitely better (better == easier)
I strongly disagree with that point. I hear it over and over. When you are moving from one OS (windows) to a drastically different OS(*nix), you need to get away from something that resembles Windows. Using an OS that is designed to look similiar will lull u into thinking that linux is similiar to windows, when in reality, the window manager is meant to be similiar to windows look and feel, but the whole way the OS was built is nothing like windows. When u want to switch, clear up a few days, choose a non-rpm based distribution, a good book on the distribution and lock yourself in a room with it (maybe have a spare computer to look up addition resources online). I promise you that you will learn far more than spending months playing with RH or Suse.
the reason i said this was because the install is so easy. the biggest complaint i hear out of newbies is that they can't get linux installed. that will deter them more than anything else. "what's the use of an os i can't install" they say. i started with redhat and i didn't have a gui for probably the first 8 months of using it (6.2). i agree with Richie086 that the best way to learn is CLI first.
beardednose
Jan 21 2004, 06:22 PM
Nice discussion, folks. Keep up the good work.
Being a Win-lose person myself, I'm playing with RH; I don't have the time to lock myself in for a day or so and learn the hard way (although that's my preference). I have to take the easy way out (and longer road) by learning on an easier version of *nix little by little. And it's hard, true.
why is debian harder to install than ( for example ) gentoo? it has at least a menu based installation, so you dont have to do all the things by command line. ive heard that many times now, but i always wondered why its so hard to some people to install debian. i personally prefer gentoo because of its great portage system, but debian is imo also fine but it should be your choice because that is one of the advantages of free unix systems: you can choose what you want, and not what they want you to choose.
dissolutions
Jan 21 2004, 07:57 PM
debian is harder than gentoo in my opinion because gentoo has such a brilliant resource for installation. Sometimes it even occurs to me that gentoo is as easy as redhat with the resources that gentoo offers for support.
cornstalk
Jan 21 2004, 09:17 PM
right, gentoo has good documentations available, but in my opinion you can install debian without reading any documentation even as an unix/linux-newbie, but you cant do this with gentoo.
SyN/AcK
Jan 21 2004, 10:15 PM
QUOTE (cornstalk @ Jan 21 2004, 09:17 PM)
right, gentoo has good documentations available, but in my opinion you can install debian without reading any documentation even as an unix/linux-newbie, but you cant do this with gentoo.
Haha, well, you must not have had to deal with it not finding your hardware, configure XFree86, selecting and de-selecting (I should say dselecting) packages. It has got to be the worst install ever. I mean ever, I would rather install any other operating system, software, hardware, anything other then Debian.
I completely don't understand your problem with the GenToo Install. Yeah its not GUI style, but you can barely make the claim that Debian's is, plus GenToo's TEXT install is easier than most GUI based installs anywhere. PLUS the reason that GenToo's install can be complicated is because it tailors the system to EXACTLY what you need and nothing more, as well as optimizing it for your system. Debian's sucks for absolutely no good reason.
At this point the only reason to want debian is for apt-get and I can get that for RedHat.
raif
Jan 21 2004, 10:32 PM
i may have to try out gentoo soon. sounds promising...
*raif hears SyN/AcK cheering in the background*
w00dy
Jan 22 2004, 04:07 AM
QUOTE
At this point the only reason to want debian is for apt-get and I can get that for RedHat
apt-get will never compare to the ease, and power of the ports collection for the *BSD's. They are truly custom tailored to every system. And easily updated.
SyN/AcK
Jan 22 2004, 04:54 AM
QUOTE (w00dy @ Jan 22 2004, 04:07 AM)
QUOTE
At this point the only reason to want debian is for apt-get and I can get that for RedHat
apt-get will never compare to the ease, and power of the ports collection for the *BSD's. They are truly custom tailored to every system. And easily updated.
Oh, I whole heartedly agree... I was just trying to give Debian the bennefit of the doubt.
cornstalk
Jan 22 2004, 01:02 PM
SyN/AcK i dont have a problem with the gentoo installation, i like it, its the best ive ever seen
QUOTE
Haha, well, you must not have had to deal with it not finding your hardware, configure XFree86, selecting and de-selecting (I should say dselecting) packages.
well, it took me a time to get my soundcard working, but configuring xfree isnt that hard, is it?
QUOTE
apt-get will never compare to the ease, and power of the ports collection for the *BSD's. They are truly custom tailored to every system. And easily updated.
gentoo has a similar package system, it downloads the source and compiles it, nearly the same as the ports system of *BSD ( its even called "portage" )
d00m
Jan 31 2004, 08:15 AM
I think newbies should stick to Mandrake. In the past i have used Dragonlinux(based on slackware)and Redhat. I am interested to try out Freebsd and gentoo too.
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ill be happy to know what you guys think about it as well
